Date: Sat, 30 Mar 96 07:23:41 EST From: Dwight McKay (The Moderator) Reply-To: Suns-at-Home@net-kitchen.com Subject: Suns-at-Home Digest V9 #12 To: Suns-at-Home-List Suns-at-Home Digest Sat, 30 Mar 96 Volume 9 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: character set problem when booting 3/260 from tape Cycle 5 mother board upgrade Fans in rack-mounted Sun systems Sun 3/80 PPP +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Submissions: suns-at-home \ | | Requests: suns-at-home-request > @net-kitchen.com | | Archives: suns-at-home-archives / | | WWW Archive access: http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 15:41:06 +0930 From: Simon Hackett Subject: character set problem when booting 3/260 from tape To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com At 08:24 PM 23/03/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:33:16 -0800 (PST) >From: John Bainbridge >Subject: character set problem when booting 3/260 from tape >To: suns-at-home@tigger.net-kitchen.com > >I'm trying to (for the first time) boot a 3/260 from tape (4.1.1) with >the intention of formatting it's HD and installing the OS. I'm using a >PC as a monitor on serial port A. The ROM monitor comes up fine, >everything checks out ok. At first booting off the tape goes fine, munix >loads etc. The problem is that when it hits the part where it should 'ask >you what you want to do, install the miniroot or go to a user shell' it >switchs character sets (seemingly). A little experimentation has shown >that it is 'asking' what do you want to do etc. and responding to the >appropriate keystrokes, it has just all of a sudden changed most of the >representations of the characters on the screen. > [...] >Thanks, >John Bainbridge John, Sounds a lot to me like the system is changing parity/bits-per-character on you. On SunOS of this age I recall having a similar "problem" which I solved by changing the parity and bits per character from 8-none to 7-even (or was it 7-odd? working from memory here). Anyway, that sounds like your problem, so don't try changing emulations, change serial framing, try 7 bits even and odd, and I bet it magically "comes good" again at the point of transition if you make a corresponding change in serial settings. Once you have the system properly installed and running, you can change the terminal settings on your console device by hitting the /etc/ttytab file appropriately. I hope this is the right clue. Cheers, Simon simon@internode.com.au [Several other people mentioned this. I've left out the duplicate messages.] [ --ddm ] - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:16:00 -0800 From: Greg Earle Subject: Cycle 5 mother board upgrade To: dwight@tigger.net-kitchen.com Our Fearless Leader wrote: > The end of last week I upgraded my machine, tigger, from a SS1+ to a 110 MHz > SPARC 5 clone from Cycle Computer. This initially sounded extremely interesting and so I off I went to check out their Web pages. > The Cycle 5 board is a drop-in replacement for the SS1, SS1+ and SS2 > motherboard. It has all the same connectors in the same places and accepts > the old SBus cards, disks and memory (with some limits). What are those limits? > You need to reinstall the OS after upgrading as this board is a sun4m CPU not > a sun4. Well, I wouldn't say you need to reinstall the OS. Just find a GENERIC sun4m kernel and then get yourself a new /usr/kvm/sys from the OS CD-ROM. > You can see pictures of the board and complete installation directions on the > Cycle Computer web site: (http://www.cyclecc.com/). They also make a board > which replaces an IPC or IPX motherboard. Which initially looked like Really Nifty products. > As for memory, the story is this: The Cycle 5 board accepts 30 pin SIMMs in > two banks of eight same size, same speed SIMMs. I purchased an additional 4 > 4x9 SIMMs to fill out one bank when I bought the board. The other bank has 8 > ancient 100ns 1x9 SIMMs giving a total of 40mb. The board offers a memory > speed dip switch and a processor speed dip switch which can be used to cope > with slow memory. The instructions which come with the board specifically > mention 100ns 4x9s as a potential problem. My experience over the past week > has been just one memory error using the factory default of maximum processor > speed and minimum memory speed. That error occured shortly after I put the > board in and since then, there have been no problems. This sounds important, because a lot of 1989-1990 class machines (SS1, SS1+) came with 100ns 1x9 SIMMs. Is it only a problem if you try to mix n' match memory speeds? > Overall, I've very happy with the upgrade. The machine feels FAST. Wabi > runs quick enough to not be annoying. If you are thinking of upgrading an > original Sun "pizza box" machine, take a look at this board. Well, y'know, I looked all through the Cycle Web pages and I thought it looked like a real neat solution, too. But then I hit the Suggested List page (http://www.cyclecc.com/html/pcost.htm): Cycle-5-IP-GX-110 Cycle 5 SS-110 110 MHz microSPARC-II 110 MHz microSPARC-II Fast SCSI-2 support Fast SCSI-2 support 2 serial, 1 parallel 2 serial, 1 parallel Existing [slow] RAM Existing [slow] RAM Onboard GX graphics Existing graphics Existing disk Existing disk 5 year warranty 5 year warranty US $3,695 list price US $2,995 list price Now let's look at John DeMarco's latest SPEC table: ******** TABLE 3: SPECint95, SPECfp95 ******** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- System CPU ClkMHz Cache SPECint SPECfp Info Source Name (NUMx)Type ext/in Ext+I/D 95 95 Date Obtained ================= ========== ======= ========== ======= ======= ===== ========= Dell DimensionXPS Pentium 66/100 512+8/8 3.16 2.75 Jan96 www.intel Gateway P5-100 Pentium 66/100 256+8/8 3.05 2.72 Jan96 www.intel Gateway P5-90 Pentium 60/90 256+8/8 2.74 2.39 Jan96 www.intel Gateway P5-75 Pentium 50/75 256+8/8 2.31 2.02 Jan96 www.intel Sun SS[45]/110 MicroSP2 110 16/8 1.59 1.99 Mar96 c.bmarks If we want to fall back to good ol' SPECint92, we have ******** TABLE 7: SPECint92, SPECfp92 ******** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- System CPU ClkMHz Cache SPECint SPECfp Info Source Name (NUMx)Type ext/in Ext+I/D 92 92 Date Obtained ================= ========== ======= ========== ======= ======= ===== ========= Dell DimensionXPS Pentium 60/120 512+8/8 160.7 105.4 Nov95 www.intel Intel Xpress Pentium 50/75 512+8/8 89.1 68.5 Mar95 www.intel Sun SS5/110 MicroSP2 110 16/8 78.6 65.3 May95 SunIntro Intel Xpress Pentium 66 256+8/8 78.0 63.6 Mar95 www.intel Compaq DeskproXL Pentium 66 256+8/8 65.1 63.6 Sep93 SPEC news In other words, some perspective here: I'm paying $3695 list for a box that will end up with: slower than Pentium 75 speeds; serial ports that can't even touch 16550 UARTs; no new monitor; etc. etc. etc. I would be willing to bet that I could open up Computer Shopper and find a Pentium 133 system for $3695 that would feature a 17" (if not 20") monitor, a 4Mb video card (e.g., an ATI Mach64) that can do at least 16-bit color at 1280x1024 instead of the GX's 8-bit at 1152x900, a decent Fast SCSI-2 controller (if not Fast/Wide) like the Adaptec 2940 that can (at least) do 10 Mb/sec synchronous, has 16550 UARTs, and to top it all off (not to mention a presumed 1.0 Gb or better SCSI-2 disk), it can run NetBSD-current (NetBSD 1.1B), which is like a SunOS 4.1.4++ ... In short, it looks like a really good product, it would be great for my wheezing old IPC/SS1 clone (SS1 pizza box, SS1 20 MHz clock speed, IPC m'board layout with on-board CG3 in a virtual SBus slot 3), and I'm glad for Dwight that he is pleased with it. But on price I really can't justify it at all. The high end PC hardware is now pretty damned decent, and approaching Sun's in the reliability dept. (Our Pentium 120 upstairs - with MAG 17" monitor, 4 MB ATI Mach64, 2x2.1 Gb SCSI-2 disks, Adaptec 2940, ATAPI CD-ROM and SoundBlaster 16 AWE running NetBSD 1.1A hasn't had a single hardware problem to date.) I'm surprised I'm saying this, to be honest. I'm about as dyed-in-the-wool a Sun fanatic as you can get - been using them almost exclusively for 12 years now; I worked for Sun for 4 1/2 years; use one (SS2+Weitek) on my desk in my office; use aforementioned SS1 clone at home - but you just can't get around the fact that there are now workstation-class PCs with reliable hardware and workstation-class operating systems (NetBSD, FreeBSD, BSD/OS, *cough* Linux) that can run on them. I suppose Cycle Computer is targeting deep pocket legacy Sun environments with these products, and not the home Sun user who reads this mailing list. So be it. But I just can't justify the cost. Nope. I'd be interested to hear others' opinions/comments. I know there are some obvious issues - Cycle protects existing investments (but if I had $3695, I'd buy the PC, keep my existing 2x1.225 Gb SCSI disks and Exabyte 8mm drive and sell the wheezing old SPARC clone and the 20" Sony monitor). There's also the issue of running the same environment at home and at work. But personally I already don't run the same OS at home and at work, and find myself compiling stuff at home, rather than writing a tape of stuff that's been compiled & installed at work and bringing it home to dump onto the home system. If I had a PC at home running NetBSD, it *would* be running the same OS as my work desktop, and then all I'd need to do is port stuff on one and then get the diffs onto the other and simply re-make things on the other box. Not a big deal to me, anyway. - Greg [ I considered a PC also, Greg. But, I have some SPARC-only applications and ] [ they simply are not offered under any of the "free" PC UNIXes. Also, I got ] [ my board for less then the price the Cycle web page lists. I got several ] [ quotes for the board from various resellers in the $2600 range. --ddm ] - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:17:30 -0800 From: Vaughan Pratt Subject: Fans in rack-mounted Sun systems To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com Between 1988 and 1994 I ran a 4/280 at home as the server for my home network. Even though it was in its own little room off in one corner of the house upstairs, separated from the nearest inhabited upstairs rooms by a cupboard and a stairwell, and eighteen inches of airspace to the guest room below, the screaming fan penetrated across the house. After a few months of being driven crazy by the noise I replaced the fan with an exhaust hood on the top ducted to a Y, with a Broan 508-A 10" 270 CFM fan in the ductwork between the Sun and the Y extracting towards the Y. One duct from the Y was vented outside, the other into the air space between floors, with a manual damper in each duct. Every six months I swapped which dampers were open, heating the house in winter and the outdoors in the summer. Worked like a charm---very quiet, and the machine was always very cool. And that end of the house upstairs was nice and warm in the winter without any help from the upstairs furnace. Vaughan Pratt - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 06:49:25 -0500 From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) Subject: Sun 3/80 PPP To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com Craig in techmode writes Ok, to start with forget about using the DP package. It's too difficult to build and install, and excessively difficult to configure and use. I tried when I was first toying around with ideas for my permanent IP link, but dumped it when I found out about a better alternative... Porting to the Sun-3 or Sun-3x architecture might be a challenge. For the Sparc, the DP package is a breeze to build, configure, and install. It took about one hour from the time I unpacked the package, and the transparent dial-on-demand PPP has functioned flawlessly for our network of three Sparcs running SunOS-4.1.3. Two of the links we use to the outside world and the Internet have dynamically assigned addresses; the third has a fixed IP address. DP handles them all without a squawk. The configuration also allows different time-outs by protocol, service, and interface, so unattended smtp and nntp transmissions can be set to time out in seconds, while interactive WWW sessions stay up for as long as your browsing style needs. Once you've enjoyed the convenience of dial-on-demand PPP, going back to a cruder package that requires that the PPP process be manually started and stopped is not an inviting prospect. -- Ronald Florence - ------------------------------ End of Suns-at-Home Digest ******************************