Date: Sat, 9 Mar 96 09:34:56 EST From: Dwight McKay (The Moderator) Reply-To: Suns-at-Home@net-kitchen.com Subject: Suns-at-Home Digest V9 #9 To: Suns-at-Home-List Suns-at-Home Digest Sat, 9 Mar 96 Volume 9 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: 3/[56]0 fans 4/470 and SCSI-3? OS choice for home machine (2 msgs) Spare hardware, and 3/160 questions Stopping a running machine with L1-A Sun OS's (was: Opus floppy, 4/330 SCSI, OS's) Suns-at-Home Digest V8 #8 Temperature controlled fans? +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Submissions: suns-at-home \ | | Requests: suns-at-home-request > @net-kitchen.com | | Archives: suns-at-home-archives / | | WWW Archive access: http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:56:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Anthony D'Atri" Subject: 3/[56]0 fans To: Suns-at-Home-List@tigger.net-kitchen.com >I too would be interested in ways of making the thing quieter, >though. The fan is quite noisy. IMHO, it's important to frequently brush off the screening that covers the fan. I found that they quickly get clogged with dirt, which leads to high internal temps. - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 11:44:24 -0500 From: Bill Kearney Subject: 4/470 and SCSI-3? To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com I've got a 4/400 motherboard in a 12 slot 3/260 cage. This sort of qualifies it as a 4/470. I'm attempting to use a SCSI-3 controller with it. I can't get it to boot anything. It's got 4.1.1 boot ROM and no OpenBoot stuff; ie no probe-scsi. I've taken a known good CD ROM and the Solaris 2.4 CD and tried b sd(0,30,1) with the settings on the SCSI for the 1st controller I get nothing. If I set the controller to the 2nd device I get a watchdog reset after it flashes the drive a couple times. This is not a scsi addressing issue. I've got the devices terminated properly and set an HD as ID0 and the CD as ID6. I've also tried sr(0,30,1) ,2) and damn near everything else. What must I do to get this to function? Bill - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:09:39 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson Subject: OS choice for home machine To: Suns-at-Home-List@tigger.net-kitchen.com > From: troycamp@fedex.com (Troy Campbell) > Subject: OS choice for home machine > > Just a few questions about NetBSD: I have a Sun 4/110 at home and its > slow booting and bringing up the window system, which is an issue since > I don't leave my machine up. Does NetBSD boot quickly? > What is its windowing system? It's not the speediest thing in the world on boot, but I doubt it's any slower than SunOS. It runs the X Window System (X11R6) just fine. However, X does take about two minutes to come up on my machine (and adding more RAM didn't seem to help this much). But I recall OpenWindows under SunOS 4.1.1 to be about as bad. > Does it support PPP? Yes; PPP is included with NetBSD and works very well. > How about troff with a HP laserjet printer? I don't know off-hand. I should think that you could use ghostscript to turn groff output into PCL5, if worst came to worst. It would be slow, but it would work. > Can I fit the whole thing (source/bin) on a 1 gig disk? You can fit it all onto a 550 MB disk, in fact. > Is it easy to install? I found it fairly easy. You want to know enough about Unix to know the commands, understand single-user-mode, disk labelling, etc. There are mailing lists and newsgroups where you can get help if necessary. (Send a note to majordomo@netbsd.org for information on the lists.) > What's the diff between it and say Linux which seems to be popular? Linux doesn't run on a Sun 3. :-) > Will I be able to use the full capacity of my 28800 modem or that a > hardware limitation? I use a 28.8 modem with no problems. However, the serial port will not run faster than 38400, so compression is not completely optimal. I don't find this to be a problem. --------- As an aside, having watched the recent spate of posts regarding NetBSD vs. SunOS, I'd like to make two points: 1. Most people refer to SunOS 4 as `SunOS' and SunOS 5 as `Solaris.' This may be incorrect terminology, but that's what people use, and the world stands about as much chance of going to correct usage on that as they do of calling a cross-wire serial adapter what it is, rather than a `null-modem adapter,' which is certainly isn't. Live with it. 2. Regardless of the merits of and support of SunOS 5, it doesn't run on Sun 3 platforms. Thus the best Sun offering NetBSD can be compared to is SunOS 4.1.1_U1, which it is most superior to in terms of features. There's also no arguing that NetBSD is under active development, and SunOS 4 is not. cjs - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 21:14:55 -0500 (EST) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Subject: OS choice for home machine To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com Digest: Suns-at-Home Digest V8 #8 > - ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:41:00 -0700 > From: troycamp@fedex.com (Troy Campbell) > Subject: OS choice for home machine > To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com > > Just a few questions about NetBSD: I have a Sun 4/110 at home and its > slow booting and bringing up the window system, which is an issue since > I don't leave my machine up. Does NetBSD boot quickly? NetBSD seems a wee bit faster than SunOS-5.4, and a lot faster in some respects than SunOS-4.1. It probably requires a lot less memory than 5.4 to run comfortably with x11. As with anything, the faster your disk, the more spindles you have, the more RAM you ahve, etc., the faster it'll be. NetBSD-1.1 does support a "clean" flag in the filesystem so that you'll avoid un-necessary fsck's on boot if you've shut the system down carefully. > How about troff with a HP laserjet printer? Groff comes with NetBSD, though I think you'll have to install the latest version, or install and use ghostscript. > Can I fit the whole thing (source/bin) on a 1 gig disk? I haven't tried the Sparc version recently, but I've got a full binary install of NetBSD-1.1 on a 105 MB drive in a Sun-3. If I removed the games I'd even have room for X11. > Is it easy to install? It's not hard. > What's the diff between it and say Linux which seems to be popular? It's real 4.4BSD "unix", with the real berkeley networking code, and it does run on a sun4, which linux won't. > Will I be able to use the full capacity of my 28800 modem or that a > hardware limitation? You may have trouble getting more than 19.2kbps out of a Sun4/110 port regardless of which operating system you run.... Good luck! -- Greg A. Woods - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 00:39:56 GMT From: rvacante@verinet.com (Robert Vacante) Subject: Spare hardware, and 3/160 questions To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com I am glad to have finally located this list...It's taken months to locate the information I needed to get my 3/160 running...If I'd only found it _before_ all the trial and error. First, my machine was built from the remains of two machines, so I find myself with a few spares, a few parts I can't use, and a few parts I cannot identify. I have a spare 501-1170 SCSI adapter, and a spare 501-1157 16 port serial adapter. (Both of which I would consider selling or trading.) I also have an 501-1102 RAM board that won't work on my machine. (But will work on a 3/2xx, 3/4xx, 4/2xx.) I'd like to sell this (unless someone can tell me how to get this working with my 3/160.) Finally, I have some "mystery boards". I can only guess what they do. Can anyone provide any info about: Solflower SF-375MEM (Memory board with simm sockets. How to configure?) Xylogics 7053 (???) Dawn 9u400/6u-5 holding a Ciprico RF - 3500 (???) 501-1054 holding a mystery board..two 25 pin "data" connectors, and one 25 pin "command" conn., and one 37 pin "command". labelled 301-160-600 I've been having SCSI problems lately...somehow, I've destroyed 2 of the internal SCSI ribbon cables. (They look ok, but won't work.) I now need another or a way to hook up drives externally. Any sources? I also need a mouse....where can I get one? TIA.... Robert - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:27:40 +1000 (EST) From: Craig Dewick Subject: Stopping a running machine with L1-A To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:02:00 -0500 > From: "fadi (f.) mehanna" > Subject: SS2 booting as standalone. > To: scf@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > > If you ever forget the root passwd, you can boot the Sun > in single user mode. Once you type the "Stop" & "A" buttons type > "b -s", that will put you in single user mdoe with root privileges. If you stop a running system using L1-A, it is imperative that the *very first* command typed at the monitor prompt is 'g0', which will force a kernel panic and flush the filesystem buffers. If this step is not done the 'fscheck' program may not be able to correct any filesystem errors which it finds when the machine is brought back up. I don't see this mentioned very often, but I've found out the hard way how important it is. Fortunately it's rare that a machine needs to be stopped with L1-A, but when this is the only option the 'g0' command will save a lot of hassles later on. Regards, Craig. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 18:50:37 -0500 (EST) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Subject: Sun OS's (was: Opus floppy, 4/330 SCSI, OS's) To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com Digest: Suns-at-Home Digest V8 #8 > - ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:58:03 -0800 (PST) > From: "Anthony D'Atri" > Subject: Opus floppy, 4/330 SCSI, OS's > To: Suns-at-Home-List@tigger.net-kitchen.com > > >> SunOS is no less supported on the net than NetBSD. Dicussion and "tips sharing" do not equal support. NetBSD has a full problem reporting mechanism, and nightly delivery of source updates. > We're geting more and more distant from the purpose of this list, but > given the volunteer status of NetBSD, and from what I can see, > development and enhancement is pretty slow. I'm not saying that NetBSD > is a bad system; I'm just saying that it's not startlingly better than > SunOS, which has never stopped being developed and enhanced. I got 5.5 > shipped to me recently. Well, that all depends on what you define as "SunOS". See below. Does SunOS-5.5 have BIND-4.9.3-REL integrated yet? > I don't know if Sun's done that yet or not. Has NetBSD implemented a > clean bit on filesystems so that I don't have to wait for fsck when I > reboot? Yup. > Perhaps, but is that very meaningful yet? I've seen lots of people > having problems with V3, and explicitly forcing their mounts to V2. Without knowing the real reasons behind their problems, any speculation here is entirely misleading... > How do you get it for BSD4.1a on a VAX 11/730? You run NetBSD-1.1/vax on it and get all the benefits of 4.4BSD in one fell swoop! ;-) > Huh? Just what OS do you think Sun's developing now? OS/9? Whoa! We're talking apples and oranges again. I believe the original intended meaning in this discussion of "SunOS" was SunOS-4, and "Solaris" is "SunOS-5". I think most people would agree that SunOS-4 (aka Solaris 1.x) is essentially a dead and un-supported product. Anyone who would rather run SunOS-4 than SunOS-5 should really run NetBSD, if only for the more up-to-date security features. > If they've got Sun3's, perhaps. It's not as clear with Sun4's. If you have any kind of Sun hardware, and unless you are willing (i.e. it doesn't totally gross you out! ;-) and able (i.e. you can afford the support contract) to use SunOS-5, NetBSD will keep your hardware running on a very cost-effective basis. (Well, sun4m support is only just barely available.) The other huge advantage of NetBSD is that it's the exact same OS for your Sun-3, your Sun-4, that PC you almost threw out, the Amiga in your closet, the old VAX in the basement, and that nifty new DEC Alpha board you bought the other day, etc., etc. > I'm skeptical that many people who run Suns at home pay for duplicate licenses. Perhaps SunSoft would like to know about this..... ;-) -- Greg A. Woods - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:53:33 -0500 From: McClinton_Rick@tmac.com Subject: Suns-at-Home Digest V8 #8 To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:58:05 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson > [...] >I too would be interested in ways of making the thing quieter, though. The >fan is quite noisy. I'm contemplating replacing it, >but I need to make sure that my cooling power is not reduced, given all >that RAM in the system. >cjs I've seen a note in the past, I believe it was on comp.sys.sun.admin or .hardware, about fans. I wish I had the original to quote; but for what its worth: the poster stated that if you replace a 12 volt fan with a 24 volt model (I imagine you should match the amperage rating) the fan will run quieter and last longer. Again, I wish I were able to locate the original note to quote for you. Please take this as an experimental hypothesis, as I don't have the data to back it up... My ss2 is pretty noisy, but the 3 scsi enclosures I have attached to it are most of the noise. My 2 bits on the current OS war: I run Solaris 2.5 because that's what I'm paid to care and feed at the office, and I seriously benefit from the practice I get. Rick McClinton mcclinton_rick@tmac.com - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 17:23:14 -0500 From: Bill Kearney Subject: Temperature controlled fans? To: Suns-at-Home@tigger.net-kitchen.com Well, now being the owner of both a 4/330 and a 4/470 I've suddenly become concerned with noise levels. Criminy! Are these things LOUD or what? If I hadn't lugged it's 12 slot butt up a flight of stairs I'd think this thing was preparing to FLY when I turned it on. Anyway, I'm not running an abundance of cards in these things. Mostly just CPU, 1 RAM board and a SCSI controller. I will eventually add more RAM and thus the 12 slot cages to start with. My question is this, does anyone know of a 5 or 12 volt temperature sensor device that will let me selectively turn fans on/off based on a given temperature? I don't know what's the right temp so answers here would help too. I have no where else that's convenient to stash these monsters so anything I can do to quiet them is necessary. The units are tolerable when only 1 top and 1 bottom fan are running. I wouldn't think of running with no fans. I actually tried this and it gets funny when the RAM overheats. Probably not a *good* thing. So, if anyone can recommend such a device, please let me know. Thanks, Bill - ------------------------------ End of Suns-at-Home Digest ******************************