Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 08:37:21 EST From: Dwight McKay (The Moderator) Reply-To: Suns-at-Home@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Suns-at-Home Digest V7 #24 To: Suns-at-Home-List Suns-at-Home Digest Mon, 18 Jul 94 Volume 7 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: 3/160 Power supply woes... Suns-at-Home Digest V7 #23 [really Solaris x86 --ed] Wanted: Old Sun3 + Sun4 Parts. Where can I buy a cheap used Sun? (3 msgs) +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Submissions: suns-at-home \ @harbor.ecn.purdue.edu | | Requests: suns-at-home-request > -- or -- | | Archives: suns-at-home-archives / ...rutgers!pur-ee!... | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 20:55:42 EDT From: wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo) Subject: 3/160 Power supply woes... To: suns-at-home@ecn.purdue.edu Recently, I purchased a 3/160, complete with all sorts of goodies (color, graphics processor/buffer, SCSI, SMD, FPA, and lotsa RAM!). (No color monitor, however :( ) Unfortunatly, it reached my house DOA. Flip the power switch, and all you get is a whirring P/S fan. (No case fans) No CPU lights. Well, I tried the following: 1) Since all that went "whirr" was the power supply, I checked voltages and resistance across the main 5vdc outputs. Minimal on both, not a good sign... 2) Fearing the worst, I yanked (with gusto!) a 750 Boshert power supply out of a 2/120 and swapped it (making the appropriate connections) with the ETA (blue) power supply in the 3/160. Praying to the gods of safe passage, I flicked the power switch. All the case fans went "whirrrrr", and the CPU diag led's lit. ALL solid. (Not a good sign either...) 3) Out of desparation, I yanked the CPU (of course, after checking that it, and all other cards were seated, and then checking with only the CPU in the backplane...) and stuck it into an empty 2/50 case. (Hey! now I'm glad I kept a few around for parts...) Flipped the power switch, and got movement on the diag leds with the switch on "diag". Not TTYA output, however. Just for fun and giggles, I flipped the switch to "normal" and punched reset. Diags ran through (no TTYA of course...) and leds went to normal "I'm waiting" single blinking LED. Well, after consulting my trusty sources (tm), I found out that the "all on" led's in step 2 could also be an indication of low 5vdc. So, to where I am now: I'm pretty sure (99.9%) that it's the power supply, and I'm looking for a new one. It's the ETA (blue) supply, PN#300-1016-02. Also, anybody with any ideas why I'm not getting TTYA output? One final: I'm also looking for information on the Sun 19" late-model monochrome monitor (PN#540-1062-01) - I figgure that untill I can afford a color monitor, I'll connect this to the mono output of the CPU. Thanks for any help, ->Pete Wargo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 15:31:01 EDT From: fan@tammy.cath.upmc.edu (Ningping Fan) Subject: Suns-at-Home Digest V7 #23 To: Suns-at-Home@ecn.purdue.edu phubbard@baosc.com wrote: >Hello all, > >Some time ago, in Unix World, I read an article which made the claim that >"used Suns can now be had for as little as $500". I haven't found any >prices even close to that, nor do I expect to anymore... :) > >Still, I would like to buy a Sun for home use - I'd like a Sparc 20, but I'll >settle for an SLC or ELC. :) So far, the lowest price I've found for >an ELC with 16 MB RAM and a 500 MB drive is around $2700. I'd like to get >one for under $2000 if possible - am I being absurdly unrealistic, or do >such deals exist? Obviously, I'd prefer to get it from someone who will still >want to talk to me if the machine develops problems two weeks after I buy it... > >So, your recommendations and comments are welcome. Horror stories about >vendors to stay away from are welcome also. > I am a owner of SolarisX86 & 486 at home. Although there are some bugs for the ProC debugger, the rest softwere works fine. I think SolarisX86 could be a better solution to actual own a SLC and the likes. Afterall, we use a machine by interacting with its OS. Under $2000 for a 486 + SolarisX86 is possible. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Case Subject: Wanted: Old Sun3 + Sun4 Parts. To: Dwight McKay I am trying to put together a collection of Sun3 and early 4 systems and would like to hear from anyone with parts they don't need anymore. I am even interested in broken equipment to mess with. Let me know what you have and what you are asking for it. Thank You, David Case ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:47:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "A. Bryan Curnutt" Subject: Where can I buy a cheap used Sun? To: phubbard@baosc.com (Phil Hubbard x6177) Dwight McKay writes: > > "used Suns can now be had for as little as $500". I haven't found any > prices even close to that, nor do I expect to anymore... :) You might, for a Sun 3... > So far, the lowest price I've found for > an ELC with 16 MB RAM and a 500 MB drive is around $2700. I'd like to get > one for under $2000 if possible - am I being absurdly unrealistic, or do > such deals exist? Such deals exist. I bought my used SPARCstation 1 (with a 19" color monitor, but a mere 8MB RAM and 300MB hard disk) for around $1200. Here's a summary of "Where to buy a cheap Sun" that was posted to misc.forsale.computers.workstations in March: : From: holmberg@baseball.corp.frame.com (Gregory Holmberg) : Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.workstation : Subject: Summary: Used/Cheap SPARCstation dealers : Date: 9 Mar 1994 02:44:13 GMT : Organization: Frame Technology Corp. : Lines: 727 : Distribution: world : Message-ID: <2ljd5t$mm1@frame.frame.com> : Reply-To: holmberg@frame.com : NNTP-Posting-Host: base-gw.frame.com : Keywords: Hard Disk : Status: RO : : Last week I wrote: : : > I'm looking for a used Sun SPARCstation 2 (4/75) or a cheap : > clone. I have identified the following dealers by looking : > through SunExpert and SunWorld: : > : > Acropolis, Milpitas, CA : > Advanced Computer Express, Northville, MI : > American Computer Rental : > Andataco, San Diego, CA : > Artecon, Calsbad, CA : > Computer Connections, Utica, NY : > Computer Marketing International, N. Andover, MA : > Computer Systems and Parts, Lakeville, MN : > Concorde Group, Milpitas, CA : > Electronic Business Solutions, N. Billerica, MA : > ELI Systems, Cambridge, MA : > Integrix, Newbury Park, CA : > InterContinental Computers, Edina, MN : > Minicomputer Exchange, San Jose, CA : > Mobius Computer, Pleasanton, CA : > Rave Computer, Sterling Heights, MI : > Solar Systems : > Sunar, Santa Clara, CA : > Tatung, Milpitas, CA : > UniSolution, Inc, Houston, TX : > Workstation Technologies, Milpitas, CA : > World Wide Technology Exchange, Atlanta, GA : > Zzyzx, San Diego, CA : > : > Did I miss any? : > : > I would like to hear about experiences with any of these, good : > or bad. Reply to me directly by email and I will summarize for : > the net. : : Here are the responses I got: : : ======================================================================= : From: "Robert E. Seastrom" : : Apex. Redmond, Washington. : : ======================================================================= : From: ren@rap.ucar.EDU (Ren Tescher) : : Here are a couple of postings I've picked up from the net : regarding sun vendors. : ren : dona nobis pacem : : From: beardsl@dlsunf.dal.mobil.com (Reginald Beardsley) : Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc : Subject: Re: SS1 clones and FAQ : What's new: : : I have added some vendors of new systems (eg. SPARC clones) to the list. : I have not differentiated between new & used system vendors because : there is a fair bit of overlap. I also have not included companies : which purely sell parts. If anyone has any comments please let me know. : : Obviously I cannot vouch for all these companies. Check with the BBB : if in doubt. Ask for references. Some of these are subsidiaries of : large multinational corporations. Others are a couple of guys with an : 800 number. I will be adding to the list as time permits. If you : find errors or know of other companies please contact me by E-mail at: : : beardsl@dal.mobil.com : : [Old FAQ deleted--new FAQ included below. -holmberg] : : ------------------------------------------------------------------------ : : From: robert@weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon) : Subject: List of SPARC Cloners and Used Sun Resellers : : LIST OF SPARC CLONERS AND USED SUN RESELLERS : by Robert Plamondon : June, 1993 : : Here's my first cut at a list of SPARC cloners and resellers of used : Sun equipment. My goal here is to make it easier for people to find : cost-effective SPARC equipment. My special interest is in upgrading : SPARCstation 1 and 1+ machines, which can be done by replacing the : motherboard with a SPARCstation 2 (or clone) motherboard. I recently : was involved in upgrading three SPARCstation 1s this way, and posted : my experiences to the net (send me e-mail if you missed it, and want : a copy). : : Like most people with SPARCstation 1 equipment, I knew of no : cost-effective upgrade path. I also didn't have any easy way to : acquire the money to do a more expensive upgrade: If I had, I : wouldn't be stuck with SPARCstation 1s, would I? But the : applications I ran (for example, Interleaf 5 under OpenWindows) were : too CPU-intensive for SPARC 1 machines: I had a real need for more : horsepower. : : At the same time, my systems were old enough that I could easily get : away with unusual upgrade practices. While normally we buy new Sun : equipment and keep it under Sun hardware maintenence, NOBODY cares : what I do with a SPARCstation 1. If I want to put a clone board in : it, fine. If I want to take it out to the parking lot and back my : truck over it, that's fine, too -- it's been fully depreciated, and : has no value on our books. (I'd have to sweep up the pieces, though.) : So I was free to explore alternatives. : : Personally, I like clone boards. A lot of people like to buy used : Sun SPARCstation 2 boards for their upgrades, rather than clone : boards, but used Sun boards cost a lot more. In fact, the clone : boards were enough cheaper than the Sun boards that I could afford to : upgrade all my systems AND buy a spare motherboard, just in case! : : I've listed both cloners and resellers of used Sun equipment, so if : you prefer Sun boards, you can find them. : : The sources for this list are: : : 1. The "SPARCward, Ho!" article in the April, 1993 issue of SunExpert. : 2. A list kindly sent to me by Ajay Shah. : 3. Ads in recent Sun and UNIX magazines. : : I'm not listing a lot of detail here, because I don't know much about : most of the vendors. I've spoken with several vendors on the phone, : and have been universally impressed by the courtesy and depth of : knowledge of their technical contacts and marketers (but I can't : vouch for their telemarketers: I never talked to them, as chance : would have it.) : : Feel free to send me additions or corrections to my list. : : WHAT TO LOOK FOR : After talking to a few of these companies on the phone, it seems that : they all offer products in a wide range of variations, and that the : biggest barrier to your success is figuring out exactly what you'd : like. For instance, you can do SPARCstation 1 upgrades that involve : a trade-in of your old SPARCstation 1 motherboard, and all your old : DRAM. The nice thing about this kind of deal is that you just buy a : new motherboard with all the DRAM pre-installed, and you trade in : your old DRAM (which is likely too slow for a SPARC 2) along with : your old motherboard. This avoids SIMM compatibility headaches. (I : don't know what kind of a deal you get for old 100ns SIMMs, because : I didn't know that people offered trade-ins when I placed my first : order. Now our system administrator has some SPARCstation 1 : motherboards and SIMMs he'll never find a use for.) : : I recommend that your order be very specific, and in writing, to : avoid confusion. We ordered some products from one company, and there : was a miscommunication of some kind, and we got the wrong stuff. I : wasn't the one making the phone calls, but it seems that the people : booking the orders and the people who knew something about the product : weren't talking. Under these circumstances, it's best to cough up a : self-explanatory piece of paper. : : For example, if I were filling out a purchase order for another : SPARCstation 1 upgrade kit, I'd word it as, "SPARCstation 1 upgrade : kit, including a new SPARCstation 2 compatible motherboard with : socketed IU, mounting screws, extended floppy disk power cable, : installation instructions, motherboard reference manual, one-year : overnight replacement warrantee, 48 MB DRAM installed. Price: $WWWW. : $XXX trade-in will be given on SPARCstation 1 motherboard with YY MB : DRAM, if delivered to you within 14 days after arrival of upgrade : kit. Upgrade kit to be delivered by ZZZ. Terms: net 30 days." Every : single item I listed there is important, and should be spelled out. : : SPECIAL MENTION : : I'm too new to the clone game to have seen much of a cross-section of : the products out there, or to have talked to all the cloners. : Marathon, though, deserves special mention: My first upgrade gave me : a great deal of trouble (a combination of a disk drive problem and my : own ignorance). Jim Hall of Marathon was extremely helpful, and came : out and helped me bang on the system until it worked. The board I : got from him, an Aries Parrot, also deserves mention for its : easy-to-use SIMM sockets and overall spiffiness. While virtually all : the clone manufacturers make "100% Sun-compatible" SPARCstation II : boards, some have convenience features, such as good sockets (or any : socket at all on the processor), that others lack. : : Also deserving of mention is Pinnacle, which has me thinking there is : no stone they have left unturned. They do both clone manufacturing : and Sun equipment servicing, and have several unusual upgrade : products, such as a speed upgrade for the ELC to boost it to 40 MHz, : and (if I understand this correctly), an IPX clone motherboard for : use in IPC-to-IPX upgrades. : : --- : : Apogee Systems, Inc., 800-367-1488, 1815 S. Gadsden St. Tallahassee FL 32301 : : Aries Research, Inc., 46791 Fremont Blvd, Fremont CA 94538 : Comments: I like their Parrot II board, which has the lever-action : SIMM sockets. : : Axil Workstations (Hundai), 166 Baypointe Pkwy, San Jose CA 95134 : : CAD National (Axil vendor), 408-554-0636 : : CompuAdd Computer Corp, 12303 Technology Blvd, Austin TX 78758 : : Computer Connection of CNY Inc., 315-724-2209 : : Concorde Group (Reseller) 800-370-0099 (East), 800-225-7213 (West). : Comments: Sells clone and refurbished Sun equipment. : : ELI Systems, 139 Hampshire St, Cambridge MA 02139, 800-447-1156, : 617-547-1113 : Comments: sells refurbished Sun equipment. : : Integrix, Inc., 1200 Lawrence Dr. #150, Newbury Park CA 91320, 805-375-1055 : Comments: Advertises SPARCstation 1/1+ upgrades. Makes a 50 MHz : SPARC II+. : : Marathon, 16795 Lark Ave., Ste 107, Los Gatos CA 95030. 800-783-7354 : 408-395-7354 : Comments: Sell clones and remanufactured (used) Sun equipment. : : Marner International, Inc., 1617 93rd Ln NE, Blaine MN 55449, 612-780-1133 : : Minicomputer Exchange. 408-733-4400. : Comments: Sells used systems and parts, including motherboards. : : Mobius Computer Corp, 5627 Stoneridge Dr, Bldg 312, Pleasanton CA 94588 : : Open Concepts International, Inc., #107 2841-109 St, Edmonton, : Alberta, Canada TGJ-GB7 : : Opus Systems, 3000 Coronado Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95054, 408-562-9340 : email: johnc@opus.com --or-- uunet!opusys!johnc : : Pinnacle Data Systems, 1350 W. Fifth Ave. Columbus OH 43212, 614-487-1150 : Comments: Already has a line of upgades for "non-upgradeable" : systems such as the ELC. Clone manufacturer. Also does depot : service on all Sun products. : : Rave Computer Association, 36960 Metro Ct., Sterling Heights MI 48312 : 313-939-8230. : Comments: Sells remanufactured (used) Sun equipment w/Sun warrantee. : : Sidus Systems, Inc. 25 Minthorn Ct., Thornhill Ontario, Canada L3T-7N5 : : Solid Computer Corp., 1450 Oakbrook Dr. #300, Norcross GA 30093 : : Stealth Computer Systems, 1980 Cumulus Ct, Thousand Oaks, CA 91362 : : Sunar Systems, 3350 Scott Blvd, Ste 1901, Santa Clara CA 95054, 408-892-0288 : 800-22-SUNAR, email: sunar@netcom.com : Comments: advertises SPARCstation 1/1+ upgrades. Makes a 50 MHz : SPARC II+. : : Super Workstation, 2190 Paragon Dr., San Jose CA 95131, 800-841-0036 : Comments: advertises SPARCstation 1/1+ upgrades. Makes a 50 MHz : SPARC II+. : : System Computing Corp, 430 10th St, S-109, Atlanta GA 30318, 404-872-6475 : Comments: advertises SPARCstation 1/1+ upgrades (DTK). : : Tatung, 2060 Ringwood Ave., San Jose CA 95134 : : Uni Solution, Inc. 5005 Riverway, Houston TX 77056, 800-552-4UNI : Comments: advertises SPARCstation 1/1+ upgrades. : : Workstation Technologies. 8A Industrial Way, Salem NH 03079. : 603-890-6700 : Comments: Sells remanufactured (used) Sun equipment with Sun : warrantee. : : Xpert Image, Inc., 10631 Harwin Rd. #606, Houston TX 77036, 713-272-7038 : : ======================================================================= : From: dan_mowczan@hub.eng.wayne.edu (Dan Mowczan) : : I highly recommend Apex Computer and Octave Systems, both available from : information in the 408 area code. These vendors are much more predisposed : to dealing on used equipment. : : Example: I needed a sun floppy. I was sent a drive and all the plastic : accessories as well as cables for the floppy for $60 and $3 cod. This is : very reasonable, most companies below will charge you $75+ for the drive, : plus accessories. : : Example: Frame buffer from a typical sun distributor (cg6) is about $2000, : or $1500 refurbished. I was offered one out of a sun guarnteed for 60 : days for $500. : : I buy some used SUN equipment myself and if you have any other questions, : I would be glad to answer anything I can. : : ======================================================================= : From: john@netcom.com : : >Did I miss any? : : Yeah, Marathon International in Los Gatos, CA. It's run by a : married couple (Jim and Julie Hall). I bought my Sparc 2 from : them just before Christmas, and have been _very_ happy with it. : I did quite a bit of shopping, beforehand, and not only did : I like the deal I got, but they were also very pleasant to : deal with. The price and quality were right up there, plus : they gave me a 6 month warranty. : : Highly recommended. : : If you call, ask for Julie, and you can say John Young : sent ya. The number is 408-395-7354. : : -John : : ======================================================================= : From: rpwhite : : Hi, I have bought from both: : : > Minicomputer Exchange, San Jose, CA : > Solar Systems : : Both are reputable and reliable. Solar offers better deals by and large, but : sometimes we buy locally for convenience. If you're buying quantity, both : will bargain. Solar especially can be driven down on SIMM prices when : buying them with a workstation. : : > Sunar, Santa Clara, CA : : Sunar has a good reputation locally, but I haven't bought from them. Mostly : because the two above have between them met my needs excellently. : : Rich White : : ======================================================================= : From: vychin@netcom.com (Vincent Y. Chin) : : >Did I miss any? : : YES (Polaris) : : >I would like to hear about experiences with any of these, good : >or bad. Reply to me directly by email and I will summarize for : >the net. : : SO WOULD I.. : : ======================================================================= : From: Jim Duke : : I have dealt with both CMI and Rave, I bought SS1+ from CMI, price was : a little more than othere (5%) but got them to increase warranty to : 180 days (from most peoples 90). Delivery was on time and packed in : good shape. System booted up fine and has been on for just over 1 year : with no problems. : : I rented 2 SS2's for one month (to teach a motif programming course) : all equipment arrived on time and in good shape. : : I would deal with both of these companies again if the need arises. : : Jim Duke : : ======================================================================= : From: skelley@umiacs.UMD.EDU (Stephen Kelley) : : I bought a SSII clone from Concorde Group. I don't think I'd : recommend then for the plug-and-ply neophyte (I got a DOA power : supply and the wrong video card and had to take out/swap with the : ones sent by C.G.) but their price was quite good - $3650 for : 16M, CG3, 19" greyscale w/out disk. Although they seem a little : careless w/ parts/testing they have tech types to talk to and have : no problem (so far) sending parts to swap out if there's a : problem. The clone (compiles and) runs 4.1.3, X11R5 and any other : applications I've tried including univ. projects - 100K DBMS code : just fine. I've connected it to univ. network, external SCSI, : modems etc w/out problems. The *ONLY* negative comment on it is that : the CPU is surface mounted. Since I specified a socketed chip to : the sales droid C.G. promised a near cost upgrade to WEITEK chip : (including new motherboard). In short, if you don't mind getting : your hands dirty and can't afford a SUN SS2 they're a reasonable : place to go to. : : Hope this helps. : : ======================================================================= : From: wbe@psr.com (Winston Edmond) : : Bay State Computer Group in Massachusetts {sells,leases} {new,used} : systems and should be able to get you a good price. Call BSC at 617-623-3100 : or 800-831-1114 and ask for Jim Coleman. : -WBE : : ======================================================================= : From: tilman@netcom.com (Tilman Spokert) : : In article <2l08a0$hhi@frame.frame.com> you write: : > Minicomputer Exchange, San Jose, CA : : I just bought a SS1+ from them. Ok deal. : : > Workstation Technologies, Milpitas, CA : : They sell "remanufactured" machines. Sun does the remanufacturing. Engineering : changes are applied to the boards if applicable. : This includes new keyboards, new cases, and original shipping boxes. : : >Did I miss any? : : Aries in Fremont. SS2 clones. I looked at them, look good. : : ======================================================================= : From: snm!wrwalke@uunet.UU.NET (William Walker) : : i purchased 4x 4/110's and a sparc2-GX from RAVE and APEX. both : were (relatively) inexpensive and tech support (for jumers and : such) was great at both places. highly reccomend them both. had : one 19" hitachi monitor go bad after about 2 months, RAVE replaced : it for free, and even payed for shipping both ways... pretty good : considering the 100+ pounds that the hitachi's weigh in at... : : good luck. : bill. : : ======================================================================= : Subject: Used workstation vendor list : : What's new: : : I have added a large number of companies. The previous list was : pretty heavily Sun focused because that was what some friends of : mine wanted when I started the list. This time I've added a large : number of companies which advertise in the "Processor". Since most : of these companies carry multiple brands, I have not attempted to : sort the companies by product line. If somone wants to call them : and send me a list, I'll be glad to include it. : : Some comments: : : 1) The "eyeball average" price of a lowend workstation is in the : $1500-$2000 range. This is for a working system that will : boot when you unpack it and apply power. Cheaper systems : are available. They are either obsolete like the Sun 3 line : or are more properly described as a complete kit of parts. : "You test it and we'll replace what doesn't work." Obviously : the parts kit approach is NOT FOR THE NOVICE. If you are : inexperienced and must hold the cost down get a Sun 3 from a : reputable full service company and upgrade when you have more : experience. You'll be a LOT happier. : : 2) If you decide to go the "kit of parts" route, be reasonable. : If the keyboard is smashed demand replacement. On the other : hand, if 10 minutes with 3M scouring pad soaked in isopropyl : alcohol will restore proper operation, don't send it to the : seller, do it yourself. You can't get steak for hamburger : prices. If he promised you steak, you may want to hold him : to it, but I prefer to save my effort for the things I can't : take care of. Of course, this presumes you have the skills : needed. If not, stay away from the super cheap deals. : : : 3) Remember what Harry Callahan said, "A man's got to know his : limitations." : : If you find errors or know of other companies please contact me by : E-mail at: : : beardsl@dal.mobil.com : : ------------------ Buying A Used Workstation FAQ ---------------------- : : Most of these companies are either leasing companies or equipment : brokers. They are an excellent source of used machines. Typically : they provide a 90 day warranty with a 5-10 day inspection period, some : only offer a 30 day replacement with no inspection. The prices vary : accordingly. In almost all cases, YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR, : WHETHER YOU WANTED IT OR NOT! You have been warned. Also, most of : these guys want to sell to multiple systems to companies. Act : accordingly. Don't waste a lot of their time on things you know : you can't afford to buy. : : : Basically there are three tiers of resellers: : : 1) Full service leasing or brokerage houses. The prices are the : highest for these. Some advertise that they completely refurbish : the euipment and provide full documentation, media, and a 90 day : warranty. There is typically also a 5-10 day inspection period : with full right of refusal except for shipping charges. If this : will be the only workstation to which you have access, this should : be your first choice despite the higher price. This especially : true if you are buying a system for a small business and have : to get work done. : : 2) Private individuals. If local these can be almost as good as a : full service seller. The difference will be in the warranty. : Most individuals simply cannot provide a meaningful warranty : beyond refunding your money if it quits 2 days after you get : it. The important thing here is the local part. Being able to : inspect the equipment setup and in operation will let you avoid : many problems. : : 3) Other. This is the hardest category to define. It runs the : gambit from small companies that almost rank as full service (and : try to portray that they are) to surplus electronics dealers. : Probably the biggest problem here is sorting out if a prospective : seller is in the full service category or other. It should be : obvious that the $100 system from Mad Mike's Surplus is only : suitable for the experienced and adventurous. : : The net: : : If you're going to buy a system from someone over the net, it gets : a bit complex. There is a certain measure of trust and : willingness to accept a loss required. If you plan to do this, : I strongly suggest that you study the news carefully for quite a : while so that you get a feel for how the really expensive mistakes : are made. Forged cashiers checks seem to be popular as of late. : The best compromise is probably a deposit equal to shipping : charges with the balance COD with payment in cash or US Postal : money order. Super great, "only if you act fast deals" are : likely to lead to trouble. Given the historical trends in : prices, today's special deal is tomorrow's average price. : : Some tips: : : 1) Know what you want to buy. Manufacturers model designations help : a lot (eg. Sun 3/60 FC-4) : : 2) Call around. They only have what someone's returned, but they will : often quote on anything. If they have a lot of units in a warehouse : they'll be cheap. : : 3) Make sure you have your own technical support lined up. These guys : typically sell to people who know what they are doing. They will : probably not do much handholding. (ie. Make friends with someone : who is already running what you want to buy.) : : 4) When you make a purchase, DO IT IN WRITING! This will save you : much pain and suffering. If you order something verbally over the : phone, and they get it wrong, you are at their mercy. You may well : find that you are stuck with something you didn't want. : : Questions to ask: : : These are not in any particular order. : : 1) Packing method: OEM boxes, foam-in-place, other. The first two : are good. The last is questionable. Do you really want to get : in the middle of an argument between the carrier and the seller : as to who's responsible for the damage? : : 2) Pre-ship clean-up and check-out. Do they? Or are they just : repacking? This is a pretty good measure of how professional : they are. Full service vendors will ship equipment with test : labels, etc. Probably also with seals on the boxes which will : void the warranty if broken. Ask if you are planning to add : more memory or disk yourself. You may want to wait out the : warranty period if they do. : : 3) Software installation. Are they reinstalling a virgin system : image or are you buying a cracking project where you have to : get the root password the hard way. Don't underestimate this. : You might have to buy or burn a new eeprom on some systems. : This goes hand in hand with pre-ship testing. If they don't : test they sure won't be installing a new copy of the OS. : : 4) Turnaround on warranty work. The full service guys take 5-10 : days for most of this. Expect longer from the rest or not at : all from individuals. What would you do if you sold your old : system with a 30 day warranty and on day 29 the buyer called up : complaining it was panicing and demanding a full refund? : : 5) Inspection period. The full service guys allow 5-10 working : days for you to check out the equipment. If you aren't : satisfied that it is in the condition they describe you can : return for a full refund less shipping costs. : : 6) eeprom settings. Sun's have a security feature in eeprom. If : you don't know the password, life could be a real pain. A : competent broker will make sure that this get's disabled when : he picks up the machines or will be replacing the eeproms as a : matter of practice. : : 7) Business history and references. Warranties are just promises, : no more. If the seller doesn't have a reputation to protect, : he has little incentive to keep his promises. Watch the net. : You can learn a lot. : : 8) Software media. Do they have it? Is there an extra charge? : Is it legal? : : 9) Documentation. You'll probably only get this if you're buying : from a full service refurbisher or an individual. From the rest, : the invoice is about all you'll get. : : 10) Licenses. This is such a grey area it's almost a black hole. : It varies from vendor to vendor. Getting an OS update on a : newly acquired used system may cost more than a new system. : Unfortunately, computer vendors have failed to learn from the : auto industry. The best way to sell new systems is to ensure : good resale prices for the old ones. Gouging the used equipment : buyer on software updates doesn't help. : : : : AT&T Capital 800-257-6083 : Alpine Computer Sales 800-274-5876 : Alpine Computers Limited (Canada) 800-665-0023 204-932-2035 : Ames Sciences 410-476-3200 : Apex 206-867-1900 : Apogee Systems 800-367-1488 : Arena Electronics (Jordan Davies) 404-237-6380 : Bay State Computer Group 800-831-1114 617-623-3100 : Centurion Surplus 408-778-2001 : CompuAdd 800-688-6380 : CAD National 408-554-0461 : Capital Trading Int'l 714-261-7620 : Computer Connection of CNY 315-724-2209 : Computer Clearing House 716-334-0550 : Computer Marketing Int'l 800-497-4264 : Computer Marketplace 800-858-1144 x91 909-735-2102 : Computer Systems and Parts 612-898-1151 : Concorde Group 800-225-7213 : Continental Computers 310-410-0133 : Datalease 714-632-6986 : Datamarc 800-933-3426 404-475-7507 : Datatrend 800-367-7472 612-942-9830 : Data Systems Technology 408-997-7978 : ELI Systems 800-447-1156 : ERI 800-222-1050 : ETC 800-899-3548 : Electronic Business Solutions 508-883-2500 : Equipment Remarketing 617-267-8600 : FDS 404-816-6350 : GE Rental/Leasing (Leasametric) 800-553-2255 : Genstar Rentals 800-422-3300 : Global Computer Sources 516-829-3774 : Grumman System Support 800-922-1225 : Hy Point Technology 800-231-5500 216-526-0323 : InterContinental Computers, Inc. 612-835-4555 : InCo [sjg@world.std.com] 603-926-0300 : JMG 612-922-4811 : Marner International 612-780-1133 : Marathon International 800-783-7354 408-395-7354 : Mike's Surplus Stuff 800-769-7977 : Minicomputer Exchange [info@mce.com] 408-733-4400 : Minnesota Computers, Inc. 800-544-5345 612-544-7900 : Mostel 415-659-9700 : Octave Systems 408-866-8424 : Open Systems Computing 800-627-6607 : Opus Systems [info@opus.com] 408-562-9340 : Quality Computer Components 800-899-1888 : RAVE Computer Association 800-966-7283 313-939-8230 : SAR 508-521-6656 : Security Computer Sales 612-227-5683 : Solar Systems 800-253-5764 : Spectron 206-827-9317 : Stramond [stramond@teleport.com] 503-591-0428 : Suncoast Workstations 813-587-7882 : Sun Valley Tech. Repair 408-224-6261 : System Computing Corp. 404-872-6475 : Sunar Systems [sunar@netcom.com] 800-227-8627 408-982-0288 : Super Workstation, Inc. 800-841-0036 408-436-8881 : TDP Computer Systems 408-441-6211 : Tame 408-734-3091 : Tatung 800-659-5902 : Thus, Inc. 703-269-2500 : Total Solutions 508-682-3454 : TSA info@tsa.com 800-422-4872 713-935-1500 : Vernon Rentals & Leasing 212-490-8989 : Uni Solution, Inc. 800-552-4864 713-552-0505 : Universal Digital 800-883-9339 612-935-9339 : West Coast Computer Exchange 916-635-9340 : Williams Electronics 800-794-4622 : Workstation Exchange 508-650-4800 : Workstation Technologies 800-882-0007 : Worldwide Technology Exchange 404-353-8496 : Wymbrot Trading 201-642-1246 : Xpert Image, Inc. 713-558-6788 : : Repair and Parts : ---------------- : : NCE Computer Group 800-446-6456 : Pinnacle Data Systems 614-487-1150 : RC Electronics 800-882-3475 714-375-3791 : National Parts Depo. 800-524-8338 : Resource Network Inc. 602-998-4536 : Sun Valley Technical Repair 408-779-4115 : : -- : : ------------------------------------------------------------------------ : Reginald H. Beardsley Contract Consultant/Programmer : : Mobil Exploration and Production Technology : : Office: (214)-851-8547 beardsl@dal.mobil.com : Home: (214)-306-3907 : : ======================================================================= : From: farah@neuma.can.cdc.com (Joe Farah) : : You missed Arena Electronics in Atlanta GA. "jordan@crl.com" : These are the best prices I've seen for Sparcs. : : Joe : : ======================================================================= : From: gp310ad@acme.gatech.edu (ROBERT DUCKWORTH) : : I'm a little guy who only advertises in Nuts and Volts and Midnight Engineering. : If you are looking for a SS2, I have a few and can configure as you need. : I'll give you a list of individual board numbers so you can be sure you're : comparing the same thing when you talk to the other folks. : : As far as experience goes. : I have sold to minicomputer excange, concorde, and solar systems. : I think mini is the nicest to deal with. : They pay less for stuff and ask more than some of the others but they are : hassle free. : : I'd appreciate the chance to bid on your SS2 needs. : : Thanks, : : -bob : : -- : Bob Duckworth (WB4MNF) 960 Ralph McGill Blvd. Atlanta GA 30306-4447 : uucp: ...!{allegra,amdmhplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gp310ad -rave on- : Internet: gp310ad@prism.gatech.edu 404 - 874-5051(H) 888-0389(O) 892-2301(F) : -enough is good, more is better, and too much is just right- : -- Bryan Curnutt Stoner Associates, Inc. bryan.curnutt@stoner.com (713)626-9568 voice (713)622-7832 fax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 13:14:46 CDT From: aqn@tivoli.com (Andy Nguyen) Subject: Where can I buy a cheap used Sun? To: Suns-at-Home@ecn.purdue.edu > From: phubbard@baosc.com (Phil Hubbard x6177) > Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 16:56:16 EDT > > Still, I would like to buy a Sun for home use - I'd like a Sparc 20, but I'll > settle for an SLC or ELC. :) So far, the lowest price I've found for > an ELC with 16 MB RAM and a 500 MB drive is around $2700. I'd like to get > one for under $2000 if possible - am I being absurdly unrealistic, or do > such deals exist? Obviously, I'd prefer to get it from someone who will still > want to talk to me if the machine develops problems two weeks after I buy it... Are you going to a real dealer, or are you looking on the 'net? Either case, I think $2700 is too much for the given configuration. Subtracting 16*$30 for the memory and $350 for the drive and about $350 for an equivalent b/w display, that means the ELC is costing approx. $1500. For that, you can probably get a bare Sparc IPC from a dealer. I have not looked in misc.forsale.computers.workstations in a while, but here are some of the ads that I saved: sparc1, color fr buffer, 19" color Hitachi, 8MB RAM, no HD, no floppy, no OS: $1200 sparc IPC, 24MB RAM, 207MB disk, 16" Sony Trinitron color, sunOS: $2100 Sun 4/65 (Sparc 1+) pizza box,8MB RAM,19" Sun Grayscale monitor, 3.5" floppy,Quantum 105 MB internal, 327MB external: $1200 sun 4/65, b/w monitor, Quantum 105 + Quantum 270MB drives, 16MB RAM, 3.5" floppy: $1600 -- Andy Nguyen \ Tivoli Systems \ (512) 502-4629 \ aqn@tivoli.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 23:54:04 PDT From: perryh@pluto.rain.com (Perry Hutchison) Subject: Where can I buy a cheap used Sun? To: phubbard@baosc.com phubbard@baosc.com (Phil Hubbard x6177) writes: + Some time ago, in Unix World, I read an article which made the claim that + "used Suns can now be had for as little as $500". I haven't found any + prices even close to that, nor do I expect to anymore... :) + + Still, I would like to buy a Sun for home use - I'd like a Sparc 20, but + I'll settle for an SLC or ELC. :) So far, the lowest price I've found + for an ELC with 16 MB RAM and a 500 MB drive is around $2700. I'd like + to get one for under $2000 if possible ... I think the only machines you're likely to find for $500 are old sun3's or maybe something like a 4/110. The cheapest sun4c's would be SS1's. These can occasionally be found in misc.forsale.computers.workstation . ------------------------------ End of Suns-at-Home Digest ******************************